I’ll preface this post by admitting that I don’t have a whole lot of experience here. I’ve only been a few times, and have yet to see the entire instance.
Of course, that’s half the reason I decided to write this post. I was under the impression that Zul’Aman was designed as a bridge between Kara and SSC. Meaning that once you got almost fully Kara geared, the next logical step is ZA. I guess I was wrong.
As you may have seen from my previous post on ZA, my first trip was unsuccessful, to say the least. I have nearly all the drops I need from Kara, and am pleasantly decked out in almost all purple gear. ZA still managed to make me go splat, and quick. The trash in Kara, for the most part, isn’t devastating, it just takes some time. Any decently geared group can work their way through it without many problems. Sure, there is a LOT of trash to clear in Kara, but at least it can be handled.
Trash in ZA, on the other hand, can really pack a whallop. As a healer, I’m used to going down fast if I get aggro. But in ZA it was almost comical. It seemed like any one hit could take me down.
SCOUT GOT AWAY!! SCOUT GOT AWAY!!
Sorry, had a little flashback there. Anyhow, in ZA I might not even know I was about to be hit until I found myself eating dirt. No fun. I do like a challenge, but at the same time I’d like at least a little room for error. But that’s just me.
And those are just my limited experiences in ZA, and that’s not really what this post is about.
Just who is ZA designed for? After doing some research in my guild and around various forums, I found an answer to that question come up again and again. ZA is designed for Tier 5 and Tier 6 equipped guilds that are bored or want a break from 25 mans.
Huh?
So after they get done trouncing Lady V, they hit ZA up for a quick breather? Wow, I guess that shows how far removed my guild is from the “real” raiding guilds out there. We only recently began SSC, and our alliance just killed Hydross and Lurker for the first time. Meanwhile, we often get our butts handed to us in ZA.
Honestly, that doesn’t make any sense to me. I know that ZA is “doable” by groups decked out in mostly Kara gear, but from all accounts it’s PAINFULLY doable. It’s also nigh impossible to really take on the whole of the timed event — something that an SSC geared group can handle, farming badges, getting more loot, and a shot at the all important bear mount.
So what are we to do? This has put my guild at a crossroads, as many members have become a bit fed up with ZA. Where we initially rejoiced at its announcement — seeing another opportunity for a more casually oriented guild to progress — our initial optimism was eventually beaten into a bloody pulp by Zul’Jin and company.
So where is a guild to go after Kara? My guild can get enough people together to run 25 mans, though not consistently. We thankfully have an alliance to help out in that respect. But what if we didn’t? As of right now, I don’t see any real progression from Kara for smaller groups. If you can clear Kara, you can pretty much do anything for non-25 man raid guilds. I guess we should just admit that right now Kara is the end game for casual guilds. Though Kara is a great instance, it’s still sad. Maybe Blizz will throw us a bone in Wrath. Who knows?
Ultimately, we’ve decided to remove ZA from our raiding schedule. It is now open for anyone to run it, if they can get 10 crazy people together, but ZA is no longer a focus for us. And why should it be? Heck, with the new badge loot coming, you’re almost better off farming heroics. Heroics can be quite difficult, but they are all doable. ZA? We’re no longer so sure. I guess we’ll leave that to those bored of farming Black Temple.
So what are your thoughts on Zul’Aman? Is it worth running, or not?
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I understand your frustration with ZA. I am part of a “casual raiding guild” that has had Kara on Farm for about 6 months before we went to ZA and had no experience in SSC or beyond. After being used to one-shotting everything through Prince, it was a huge wakeup for us. We got pwned hard. Your tanks and healers (I play a Tree) absolutely *have* to be on the top of their game ALL THE TIME, which is a challenge for casual guilds. And you need 3 healers. No more of this “skating with two or the third healer doing some dps.”
That being said, it is do-able for a casual guild. You have to be willing to die lots though in order to learn it, though, and that is understandably frustrating and expensive. All the boss fights are highly tactical and every one needs the coordination that a Nethersprite/Prince fight had. We are fortunate to have 2-3 really good raid leaders who are excellent at learning and coaching the other guildies who are unfamiliar with the fights.
We can do the first two timed quests fairly consistently now, but the third is still beyond reach. Zul’jin just recently went down, but downing any boss is still cause for celebration due to their difficulties.
So… the whole point of this speech? I would say ZA is endgame for “casual, non-25 man raiding guilds,” not Kara. I look at it this way: 99% of the raiding guilds do not have Black Temple on Farm, and those that do are impressive and “hardcore” (hate using that word). ZA is designed to be a challenge for 10man guilds like BT is for 25mans. But in order to master it, you have to find wiping while progressing and a little outside research enjoyable. If this is not what your guild likes (and absolutely no shame if it does not for those in a casual guild), then blowing through Kara in 3 hours for 22 badgers is not a bad way to spend your time either!
Yeah… pretty much what Barona said.
ZA leaves absolutely no room for error, and everyone needs to know how to squeeze every last drop out of their classes. Kara geared is sufficient I’ve heard, but if your tanks don’t know how to gen threat optimally, your DPS is light, or your healing slips even a hair…. well….. good night.
My guild hasn’t broken through to T6 yet, and we’ve yet to complete ZA. It’s not our focus at all – but the Dragonhawk routinely owns us, and Zul’jin remains alive.
ZA is supposed to bridge Magtheridon and SSC, and so was (IMO) designed for T4 guilds. Among T4 guilds, this instance separates the men from the boys. It’s certainly doable as T4, but, unlike Karazhan, you can’t bring dead weight because for T4 guilds this place is actually a challenge at that gear level (which is the fun IMO).
Casual guilds who are serious about clearing ZA really have to assemble their A team. My group started running ZA after Kara and Gruul. Our first time in there we downed Nalorakk just after the sacrifice timer was up (i.e., it took us more than 20 minutes to clear to him and kill him), and we couldn?t even do the gauntlet up to Akil?zon because we would get overwhelmed by eagles. Now we have the first two chests on farm (like Barona) and clear ZA in one night. We still have problems with Jan?alai sometimes, and Zul?jin always takes a couple of tries, but the place gets cleared. And my guild is still T4. Clearing ZA isn?t about having better-than-T4 gear, it?s about getting ten people together who know how to play the game. Getting chests is about keeping the group as consistent as possible from week to week to maintain a level of familiarity with the instance and to minimize time spent explaining encounters.
Up until Magtheridon, WoW is far too forgiving towards players who can?t play their classes properly and who can?t coordinate in a raid. Well ? if they say that Magetheridon is an idiot check, then ZA is a series of six idiot checks after that.
But when everyone brings it in ZA, the instance just becomes fun. Racing against the clock every week (or every three days, depending on how masochistic your guild is, hehe) is just plain fun for us. For the past two weeks we have cleared up to Jan’alai with more than enough time to kill him, but we’ve wiped and lost the third chest. Maybe we’ll get it this week if we continue to push ourselves and have a bit of luck on the Jan’alai fight. There’s excitement in that.
BTW, if a healer is getting pwned in the face by trash in ZA then there is a serious tanking or CC problem.
GL regardless of what progression your guild decides to pursue!
Z’A is, as Pookies said, doable in full tier 4 – but that includes the gear that comes from Gruul and Magtheridon (and a lot of people have skipped Magtheridon). It’s no walk in the park at tier 5 either, especially if you have a mix of gear levels in your group.
Though touted as a tier 4 level instance, it reminds me of the heroics back before they got beaten with the nerf bat. There is *no* room for error, one undergeared person can tank the entire group, and even a good solid group can wipe in interesting and exciting ways. You also *really* need a consistent roster (which is the failing point of the group that I run with).
I happen to be one of the Raid Leader and tanks for Bandits which Mum plays in.
Generally our problem is consistancy. We’ve long had a policy of signup sof first come, first serve. We do have designated slots, but we often find ourselves with people unfamiliar with the encounter, less than optimally geared or the wrong class mix.
When we bring our A game with our experienced raiders playing toons they’ve been running ZA, the first 4 aspects are a joke and we have no problem with the first two chests. I dont’ have alot fo doubt that with some tuning of strategy and path we take we could hit the third. We have dropped Malacrass a couple times, but not Zul’jin.
Honeslty most folks are not looking at the loot table and going “Why?” The loot table of ZA is particularly tailored for cerntain classes with only a few pieces that other classes would have any interest in. Often even those pieces are sidegrades to pieces obtainable elsewhere.
We haven’t given up on ZA as an instance, but I think we’re better served by focusing most of our energy elsewhere. Za still gets run, but its more of a pickup raid at this point within the guild for those who are interested in running it.
I want to confirm pretty much what everyone has said thus far.
My present guild broke off from a hardcore T5 guild to form a group of people still serious about raiding but more attuned to RL constraints… we raid only 3 nights a week. Our vets (myself included) were in a mix of T4 & 5 when we started ZA and we found it to be quite challenging… numerous Jan’Alai & Hexlord wipes until we finally figured them out. Slowly but surely we got ZA geared and now we’re consistently clearing in 2 and a half hours and occasionally getting the 3rd chest.
So my advise is DON”T GIVE UP! It’s worth it!
After gearing up 1 group, we spilt up that group, ‘cross-pollinated’, and have 2 ZA groups running with good success. 2 weeks ago we pieced together a 25-man… we 2-shotted HKM and 1-shotted Gruul & Mags in one night! Last night we went into MH (courtesy of 2.4) and downed Rage on the 2nd attempt!
Bottomline, ZA is a viable path to gear for MH/BT, without even stepping foot in SSC & TK, and shouldn’t be ignored.
Good hunting!
Flynx @ Bronzebeard